Continued from Page 1
Bethanne Patrick: Now you just said a minute ago that you came out in one step at that point but as you detail in this new book, it wasn't the end of the steps of the coming out process. And in the book you talk about the actual, specific steps in that process. Could you talk about those a little bit?.
Chris Nutter: Well, there was a lot of looking back to identify the steps because I had to go way back in my life, in ancient history, to when I went in the closet. And it's going in the closet that requires that you come out. The going in the closet process with gay people basically happens when you realize that you are something that you're not supposed to be.
Bethanne Patrick: Now you just said a minute ago that you came out in one step at that point but as you detail in this new book, it wasn't the end of the steps of the coming out process. And in the book you talk about the actual, specific steps in that process. Could you talk about those a little bit?.
Chris Nutter: Well, there was a lot of looking back to identify the steps because I had to go way back in my life, in ancient history, to when I went in the closet. And it's going in the closet that requires that you come out. The going in the closet process with gay people basically happens when you realize that you are something that you're not supposed to be.
More Love & Sex Advice From Chris Nutter
Get more love and relationship advice that can improve your life! Check out more from AOL Love & Sex Coaches , plus get additional tips and information on living a healthy lifestyle from all of our AOL Coaches.
- Listen to Chris' Podcast
- Buy Chris' Book, 'The Way Out'
- More Love, Sex & Self Help Interviews
- Check Out All of the AOL Love & Sex Coaches
- Visit AOL Gay & Lesbian
More Tips And Advice from AOL Coaches
Bethanne Patrick: That can happen at any point. It doesn't have to be puberty -- it could be in childhood or it could even be in adulthood.
Chris Nutter: I think it's fairly slow, I think as your sexual awareness comes to you and then you start picking up that you're attracted to the same sex, that universally the messages that you get are that this is despicable or wrong or against God and god knows what else. Gay people start disassociating from their sexual self. It's a survival method. It's a way to stay alive. Because, if you embrace that knowledge when you're not ready for it, it could kill you. So I think going in the closet is a way to survive. I think the coming out process is for each person -- and it depends on however long it takes -- is the process of slowly reintegrating, which can happen, again, at any point but generally the motivators are extreme discomfort. And the first step is, on a certain level, acknowledging and coming out to yourself. That's the first step.
Bethanne Patrick: One of the things that you say towards the end of the book that I think is so important is ending homophobia by eradicating it within -- by eradicating it in yourself. So I thought maybe you could talk about that for a moment too. As you said, you go into the closet at a certain point and you don't acknowledge and you don't fully love the self.
Chris Nutter: Yes, yes. Exactly. Through the whole process it's entirely internal, and your world simply mirrors it. And so every step from there, the step to tell anyone else, or to start living your life externally as a gay person to whatever degree is all a manifestation of your own personal decisions, and all to whatever degree that you can at any point, to acknowledge that everything that you've absorbed about yourself that says that you are wrong because you are gay is not correct. And that is the elimination of homophobia within your own being. That is the only way that it can be eliminated. I only experience my own homophobia, I don't experience anyone else's. If I'm watching someone on television, and let's say it's a neo-nazi, and he's like Jews are taking over the world and aliens are going to come get us, and whatever, right?
Bethanne Patrick: Right.
Chris Nutter: I don't believe that. And I see that he is lost in his own insanity and no part of that has an effect on me because there's no part in me that believes that. But to whatever degree that I believe that I am wrong and not as good because I'm gay, that is when other people's words and statements and deeds resonate in me. If it doesn’t exist in me there is no resonation, there is no knowledge, there is no experience of it. It's seen for what it is, which is that person's own self hate. Straight people who are very homophobic, even though it appears as though it's against gay people, it's against themselves.
Bethanne Patrick: Now I have an interesting question for you that came from our Gay & Lesbian area at AOL. He was talking about the idea that since you, as you said, have to take in what society says in order to have this homophobia within: do you think the media right now is helping to create a more positive image of gays? Do you think there are any TV shows or music or media -- what's the positive coming in at this point?
Chris Nutter: Well, I think, honest to god, that the number one positive thing that's happening on that level is gay people's presence. Because, even from my age group, and I was born in 1970, I would say it's a very common experience for people born when I was born and prior to believe for a long period of time that you are the only gay person. And then when you do start to see other people that are maligned as gay you learn that gay is a term of slander and gay is something to be hidden. The way that I describe in the book is that gay people are shadowy discards from society. This is your idea, that you are alone on an island and the only people that you can identify with are outcasts. And gay people raised in the world today, at least in Western society, never have that fleet, if they're anywhere near a television or a radio. Just to see on television, and read in books and magazines, that gay people exist and are living lives that you can see look like straight people's lives in the sense that they are full -- that's massive. But nevertheless, it's still an individual's choice, always a choice, to know that they are right or to believe that they are wrong. Because there are, my guess, vastly many more people in the closet in this world than there are out.
Chris Nutter: I think it's fairly slow, I think as your sexual awareness comes to you and then you start picking up that you're attracted to the same sex, that universally the messages that you get are that this is despicable or wrong or against God and god knows what else. Gay people start disassociating from their sexual self. It's a survival method. It's a way to stay alive. Because, if you embrace that knowledge when you're not ready for it, it could kill you. So I think going in the closet is a way to survive. I think the coming out process is for each person -- and it depends on however long it takes -- is the process of slowly reintegrating, which can happen, again, at any point but generally the motivators are extreme discomfort. And the first step is, on a certain level, acknowledging and coming out to yourself. That's the first step.
Bethanne Patrick: One of the things that you say towards the end of the book that I think is so important is ending homophobia by eradicating it within -- by eradicating it in yourself. So I thought maybe you could talk about that for a moment too. As you said, you go into the closet at a certain point and you don't acknowledge and you don't fully love the self.
Chris Nutter: Yes, yes. Exactly. Through the whole process it's entirely internal, and your world simply mirrors it. And so every step from there, the step to tell anyone else, or to start living your life externally as a gay person to whatever degree is all a manifestation of your own personal decisions, and all to whatever degree that you can at any point, to acknowledge that everything that you've absorbed about yourself that says that you are wrong because you are gay is not correct. And that is the elimination of homophobia within your own being. That is the only way that it can be eliminated. I only experience my own homophobia, I don't experience anyone else's. If I'm watching someone on television, and let's say it's a neo-nazi, and he's like Jews are taking over the world and aliens are going to come get us, and whatever, right?
Bethanne Patrick: Right.
Chris Nutter: I don't believe that. And I see that he is lost in his own insanity and no part of that has an effect on me because there's no part in me that believes that. But to whatever degree that I believe that I am wrong and not as good because I'm gay, that is when other people's words and statements and deeds resonate in me. If it doesn’t exist in me there is no resonation, there is no knowledge, there is no experience of it. It's seen for what it is, which is that person's own self hate. Straight people who are very homophobic, even though it appears as though it's against gay people, it's against themselves.
Bethanne Patrick: Now I have an interesting question for you that came from our Gay & Lesbian area at AOL. He was talking about the idea that since you, as you said, have to take in what society says in order to have this homophobia within: do you think the media right now is helping to create a more positive image of gays? Do you think there are any TV shows or music or media -- what's the positive coming in at this point?
Chris Nutter: Well, I think, honest to god, that the number one positive thing that's happening on that level is gay people's presence. Because, even from my age group, and I was born in 1970, I would say it's a very common experience for people born when I was born and prior to believe for a long period of time that you are the only gay person. And then when you do start to see other people that are maligned as gay you learn that gay is a term of slander and gay is something to be hidden. The way that I describe in the book is that gay people are shadowy discards from society. This is your idea, that you are alone on an island and the only people that you can identify with are outcasts. And gay people raised in the world today, at least in Western society, never have that fleet, if they're anywhere near a television or a radio. Just to see on television, and read in books and magazines, that gay people exist and are living lives that you can see look like straight people's lives in the sense that they are full -- that's massive. But nevertheless, it's still an individual's choice, always a choice, to know that they are right or to believe that they are wrong. Because there are, my guess, vastly many more people in the closet in this world than there are out.
