Continued from Page 2

Bethanne Patrick: That raises the question of, you were talking about gay presence, does gay pride still matter?

Chris Nutter: Does gay pride still matter? I think it matters for a lot of people. That's a very tough question. There's a lot of debate about that and I think part of the debate has to do with the notion of pride and then the culture around it kind of being evolved. The idea of gay culture and gay liberation that came out in the 60's and the 70's is irrelevant today.

I think a lot of movements, like the power of feminism in the 70's, there was a backlash against feminism. Or if you look at civil rights, and the tremendous power that the civil rights movement had in the 50's and 60's to change things and now the incredible debate in the African American community about where civil rights -- I think gay pride is a cultural event that is under a lot of scrutiny in the same way that other subjugated groups are in great debate about the meaning and the means to liberation. And, personally, I think it should be there as long as anyone wants to do it.

I also think for someone who is just out of the closet and goes to a gay pride parade, that is revolutionary. They're not going to sit there and dissect it and go 'I don't like what they're wearing. And I don't like this music.' That's someone who's been in New York for ten years who's going to sit there, and take it to pieces, take it apart like this just doesn't apply to me. But I can guarantee for anyone who's just out of the closet, just going from feeling like they didn't exist, to see that they do, and in mass numbers, I think it's revolutionary.

Bethanne Patrick: I really think having read 'The Way Out' that your book is going to be revolutionary too, because as you say, it's about self realization and about love. It is about really taking an unflinching look at each person. And so the last question I wanted to ask you is: can straight people learn form the priciples in your book too -- the principles about acceptance and about integration?

Chris Nutter: Oh, listen, absolutely. First of all, you know, the endorsement of the front of the book is from Gary Zuckoff, the author of 'The Sea of the Soul' and this person is a heterosexual male. The only reason at this point in time that it would still be conceptualized that a book that speaks to gay men does not speak to anyone else just speaks to our general lack of awareness of the universality of the human condition. But I think that is going to change over time.

Everything that's written in the book is absolutely applicable to every human being on earth, just like 'The Power of Now', and 'The Four Agreements' and 'The Sea of the Soul' and the fact that it spoke to me as I read it even though I was not acknowledged as a gay person. But I think that the one thing that straight people could take away from this is you realize that we are almost all in the closet about almost every single aspect of who we are, and coming out sexually is a metaphor for it, but when you apply it to every part of you that is real, that you have disassociated from, you realize that this is a process that applies to everything. I think this is something that will be recognized much more widely in 20 years. I think right now, it's brand new.

Bethanne Patrick: I think it is. And I'm so glad to have had the chance to talk to you. I'm speaking with Christopher Lee Nutter, whose book, 'The Way Out: The Gay Man's Guide to Freedom No Matter if You're in Denial, Closeted, Half In, Half Out, Just Out or Been Around the Block' is out from HCI Press. And, Chris, thank you so much for talking with AOL Coaches today.

Chris Nutter: Oh, thank you for having me on. You're wonderful.

Bethanne Patrick: Oh, thanks. Bye bye now. This is Bethanne Patrick for AOL Coaches.